>> this thing's got deep roots. hey, welcome to "morning joe," it's tuesday, november 27th. as you look at a cold time square. it's going to be snowing soon. and let me just say, i don't like it. msnbc contributor mike barnicle's with us, as well as the president of on the council of foreign relation richard haass and author of the new book, and also the great willie geist. willie, we have so much to talk about. >> good news on if weather. i know you love new york weather. the sun will be out again in early may. >> oh, great. >> it starts today and goes until may. >> well, you know, willie, i'm big on hard news. >> they're always asking me, joe -- >> i've got some right here. >> how do you -- how do you keep up with the news? and i say i read "the new york post." >> obviously. >> you see halle berry's big baby daddy. >> i didn't know it was that bad. >> it was that bad. >> so halle berry has a

boyfriend and gets a new boyfriend and the new boyfriend doesn't like the old boyfriend. this guy's all beaten up. he's a pretty french guy. underwear model. >> by the way, that was on thanksgiving day. >> thanksgiving day. >> in a child custody dispute and got his rear end handed to him. >> i hope he gets paid only for showing underwear. b because if they show his face, it's not good. >> just the crotch shot. >> just the crotch shot, that's right. >> it's early for this. >> i've got somebody that is available. his face is still intact. >> what is this? >> the world turns and we turn with it. plans disappear, dreams take over. but wherever i go, there you are. my luck, my fate, my fortune. chanel number 5.

>> in the words of my 14-year-old daughter -- get over yourself. >> what happened? what happened, willie? this is a guy that i worshipped on fight club. >> that was a great episode of "snl" that night. >> that guy won fight club. >> i don't know what to say. i don't know what to say. i still like the man. >> how? >> he puts on a good movie, but my goodness. >> he was on "fight club" and now this? what has angelina done. >> no, it's just the attention that he gets -- >> what has happened? >> messed him up a little bit. >> certain parts of that man have been placed in a lock box, and he needs them back. >> it's not like he needs to raise cash, i don't think. >> no, what's going on. >> i think he did it for a charity. >> let's hope so. probably -- >> now you're going to guilt us. >> well, he's got 87 kids he's adopted from across the globe -- >> we should get ahold of clooney to find out --

>> you know what jerry would say? >> i do -- >> i don't know what's going on in that noggin of yours, but right now i've got to say, it's like three rocks knocking together. you're ruining yourself! you're ruining yourself! >> if you know george clooney, i know you know him a little bit, he must have just killed brad pitt, the first day it came out. >> maybe he lost a bet. >> to george clooney. exactly. >> that's a possibility. >> now, that's okay. if he lost a bet to george clooney, that's awesome. you know -- you know what would take george clooney to -- george clooney would do something like that under one condition, if he were in a coffin and they put a wig on him. >> it's not right. >> it's just not right. >> it's a bad commercial. can i do the news now? >> hey, by the way, yeah, but more big news. the nets beat the knicks. brooklyn beats new york. >> got a rivalry on our hands here. >> knicks beat themselves.

>> come on. whatever. >> john heilemann was there. he was at the game. >> tweeting -- >> there's some of that, i'm sure. >> do they have v.i.p. coke rooms? >> there are darkrooms and do what you will. >> okay. very well. i think i'm going to be going to see some nba games. >> with heilemann. >> boy, the game goes so fast when you're with heilemann. it's first quarter, it's fourth quarter. >> you're sweating in the first quarter. it's amazing. >> hmm, interesting top story. >> scratching your teeth at halftime. let's go into the news. >> really? are you sure? >> i'm not really sure why people's teeth itch, but heilemann's teeth itch an awful lot. >> what is that about? >> we'll talk about it at break. >> is that a sign of something? >> good news, though -- >> what's that? >> heilemann is joining us tomorrow night in boston. >> good, he's bringing lots of money, i hope.

>> of course. and other stuff. heilemann always -- >> by the way -- >> this is the big event that we are planning -- >> huge. >> you have to wear a mustache and perform. and if we raise $1 million for cure, which is for epilepsy research, david axelrod will shave his mustache off live on the show and we are almost there, like within about $100,000, apparently. >> usef contributed $50,000 and donald trump has contributed $100,000. >> have we got trump's cash yet? is it in? >> he's good for it. >> he's good for it. david knows trump. >> but we're literally about 100,000 away. >> what do you call rattner? >> he's calling friends too. >> i bet -- >> from his bath of money. >> i bet rattner could put us over the top. >> he could. >> put scotch tape on his

fingers, go into the bathtub, and we're over the top. yeah, is rattner on today? buffe buffett's own, he'll give us -- he's got a couple billion to give away. >> that is mustache is gone. >> we're to our top story which has taken me six minutes to get to. three weeks -- >> it's worth it. >> it is worth it. three weeks after his reelection, majority of americans approve of the job president obama's doing in office. at 52%, it's the highest approval marks the president has received from the cnn/orc survey since may. a majority of people say his experience over the first four years will make him a better president in the second term. there is measured optimism, however, about the future. 56% believe the country will be better off four years from now, compare that to four years ago when 76% felt that way. moving on now, governor chris christie is getting ready for a second term. the republican governor has filed paperwork to run for

reelection. christie currently enjoys a record high approval rating from -- following his hands on response to hurricane sandy. before the storm, 56% of registered voters in the garden state approved of the job he was doing after sandy, they were surveyed again giving the governor -- >> look at these numbers. >> 77%. >> willie, you're a new jersey guy. new jersey native. i'm sure you can't remember a governor having a 77% approval rating, a republican governor in a blue state having a 77%. 67% of democrats in new jersey give chris christie a positive rating. i just -- he's defying gravity politically. it's remarkable. >> by historical new jersey standards in these polls, that 56% number was outrageous to begin with. a republican governor in the state of new jersey gets 52%. yes, it's the storm, but it's also what we saw on the show, i

think it was two weeks ago, him and randy weingarten sitting down. there are people who don't like his style, don't like the way he does things, but they recognize he's working with the other side, a thing we don't see much in washington to get things done for the people. yes, it's the storm, but also the body of what he's done -- >> mike, it's so unusual in a state like new jersey where scandal seems to chase one major politician after another from toricelli to menendez. and who would've believed this big guy that came out of nowhere would rise above them all? it is stunning stuff. >> well, big guy and big lesson to be learned by others in that business. that you can speak your mind as chris christie does every day all day, you can speak your mind and get away with it, that's not the wrong phrase, actually. >> be rewarded for it. >> by behaving the way chris christie did. by appearing with the president

of the united states, by acknowledging the fact that the president came, and thank you very much for all your help in new jersey and appear to be and indeed be bipartisan. look at the rewards. people recognize it. >> i just wonder if during hurricane sandy if mitt romney had said i really, really, appreciate what the president is doing at this time of crisis for our country. we support what he's doing, we support the people in new jersey and new york and new york city and also during foreign policy crises where there might have been some alignment if mitt romney had just said the president is doing the right thing or stayed out of the way might it have made a difference. because there are times that happens, they could actually agree. >> and mitt romney polled well when he talked about his ability to work across the aisle when he was governor of massachusetts. and i think that's message for what's going on in washington right now. people are tired of gridlock, tired of the endless ideological warfare, and hopefully that and

the fact that the president's numbers are up, hopefully that helps moving into the negotiations about the fiscal cliff and all else. essentially the message in washington, we need to see a little bit of progress. former governor jeb bush met yesterday with former staffers near the white house where he reportedly entertained questions about his political future. >> huh. >> according to "the national review," governor bush sat down with a number of veteran florida operatives along with mitt romney's campaign pollster. the article says mr. bush, quote, remained coy about making a run for the white house. instead deflecting the focus toward his efforts on educational reform. >> and the question is -- richard, the drudge report had the headline bush iii. are americans going to -- regardless of how qualified he is. are they going to be turned off by possibly electing a bush when you have history of bush for eight years, clinton for eight years, obama for eight years,

another bush when there was actually, you know -- well, wait, bush, clinton, bush, obama, bush. >> that's probably due for another obama. i think bush like christie is a republican who has crossover appeal. he has tremendous support among hispanics because of his position on immigration reform. tonight i'm going to be with governor bush. we are doing an event in washington talking about the need for educational reform as a big national security challenge unless we get k-12 education right, we're now not going to get this country right. and the fact that someone like jeb bush has become one of the principal champions of education reform has shown me how republicans can have appeal if they go beyond the narrow agenda. >> what do you think? >> i think he has enormous appeal. he's a very attractive candidate. and as richard pointed out, he is not the republican candidate we've seen in the past couple of elections. i mean, he has enormous appeal

to the hispanic community in this country, he has a real -- he's been a governor, he's made decisions. he's worked with legislatures, he knows how to get things done. he's -- >> does his last name hurt him? >> i think given the attention span in this country, it doesn't hurt him as much as we think right now. >> yeah. >> there'd before four more years before he'd be on the ballot, i think a whole new demographic out there. he has enormous appeal. he's an enormously appealing guy. >> i've liked him for a very long time. all right, moving on to other news. i'd like to actually get both of your insights on this. susan rice is heading to capitol hill today to meet with some of her toughest republican critics and answer questions about the september 11th attack on the u.s. consulate in benghazi. rice will sit down with senators john mccain, lindsey graham, and kelly ayott. in recent days, senator mccain

has softened his criticism as rice insists that she was relying on talking points from the intelligence community. last night, senator graham rejecting her defense but says he's open to today's meeting. >> she asked to meet with us and now we'll listen to what she has to say about her role in benghazi. the more i know about benghazi, the more upset i am that the consulate was even open on september 11th. when you look at the history and the reporting coming out of libya about the dangers, it should never have been open or heavily reinforced. after the attack, i think the story we were told about a spontaneous event caused by video where a mob turned into a riot is less credible than ever. >> she reportedly called the meeting. seems like a smart move. what do you think? >> well, i think it's a smart move for john mccain to take the meeting. they're boxed in. this is not a fight they want right now. it was a stupid fight to pick. they put themselves into a

corner and now they've got to figure out how to get out of that corner. and they're going to do it. they're going to talk to her and senator mccain will be gracious to her. and, again, all the questions that are being asked about benghazi that are reasonable, rational questions that most americans have unless they're extreme left wingers on twitter -- or joe klein, those are logical questions that need to be asked. i love you, joe, but i'm not sure yesterday what you were on -- >> i know what he was on, the truth. >> what the hell ever. listen, there are legitimate questions to be asked -- >> there are. >> even though -- >> there are some dumb ones too. >> even though left wing partisans don't want those questions to be asked. however, richard, there are a lot of questions to be asked about benghazi that john mccain and lindsey graham asked all the wrong ones and went after the wrong person. this was not susan rice's problem.

>> she was a spokesperson for the administration. she is up to be potentially secretary of state. she's not up to be mayor in bengha benghazi. they should have her up there, but ultimately they should ask her about trade policy and china policy and what she would do about other issues in the middle east like the iranian nuclear program. you've got the president-elect of mexico and washington this week, what would she do about u.s./mexican relations. there's an entire agenda out there. she's been ambassador to the u.n. what about what's going on in the u.n. this week? with the palestinians looking to have their status -- there's an entire agenda. the idea that we're focusing on one set of talking points is ridiculous. >> i know you to be a pretty nonpartisan guy, do you smell anything fishy with this benghazi investigation or the way it was handled? do you sense any incompetence? because if you talk to john mccain or lindsey graham, you ask the question, are we talking about a cover-up or general

inconfidence? >> the idea was, why did they turn down the all the added security? why did the ambassador go without adequate security? that's a real issue. why were these decisions made? the question, then, of the talking points, what did the cia provide, why was the intelligence community late in apparently getting the points right? it's not the first time we've seen things like that. it's worth looking at. but the idea that a month later, we're still focusing on this rather than basic questions of foreign policy on how to deal with terrorism in these areas. seems to me we are missing the main event. we're looking for scandal. when it simply may have been confidence or bureaucratic, the normal stuff. >> well, this might get to the incompetence aspect of it. but how is it you figure it happened that susan rice gives the initial statement, which is understandable. she's using administration talking points, but continues with those similar talking points for a period of eight, nine, or ten days when a huge

number of people in the intelligence community know that there was a lot more to it than that. why didn't anyone reach out to her and say you've got to adjust what you're saying? >> well, i don't know that no one did, and clearly there were people in the administration that want to present the image that the terrorism threat wasn't great. wasn't as great as some would suggest. i'm not going to sit here and say politics weren't involved. of course they were. and whenever you're giving talking points, do you stretch them in one direction, do you run with them farther in some ways than your counter -- but again, it was the middle of a campaign. i think the focus really ought to be on the full foreign policy of the administration on her potential qualifications to be secretary of state. that's a legitimate area. i think the idea of politicizing or just going narrow to keep drilling down on benghazi, what the senators are doing, i don't think they're ever going to get satisfaction. >> and by the way, again, just

talk the politics of it. it doesn't make sense to keep obsessing on benghazi and why susan rice said what susan rice said one morning, one sunday morning months ago on talk shows. they all know. susan rice said what the intel community cleared. if susan rice had not said what the intel community cleared. she would then say she was unfit for office for ignoring what the intel community told her what she could and could not say. so move beyond it. it's just -- and if they want to have an investigation, figure out why four people died. and how we can avoid it. how we can avoid having u.s. ambassadors killed in the future. that's it. >> okay. coming up, warren buffett will be here onset. also senate majority whip dick durban. jake tapper and celebrity chef tom colicchio. >> those are all great. but now, unfortunately, we've got to wait for our good guests to come on.

>> we're going to lose everyone. >> up next, jim vandehei joins us here onset. >> the clicking of channel changers across america. jim, we love you! come over here! >> bill karins -- oh, no, speaking of -- >> what? >> we call him c.g. for -- >> no, we don't. >> c.g., what do we got? >> now i've got to think of something creative for what c.g. stands for. snow is falling in a few areas this morning, we're looking at new jersey, looks like the suburbs outside philadelphia and new york could see snow. getting ready to treat a lot of those roads. a lot of that eco friendly rock salt. let's show you what's happening on the radar, the pink is where it's a little bit of a mix and the green is the rain. we've set up the boundary line somewhere north of philadelphia and just north of new york city. below that, it's kind of a mix or rainy around philadelphia. little later today, once the

colder air moves in, we will see philadelphia changing over to snow. it's not a huge storm, this isn't a big ocean storm, not a nor'easter, a quick event during the daylight hours today. and the temperatures are pretty warm right now. new york city still above 40 degrees, philadelphia near 40, big cities and the airports shouldn't have much of an impact whatsoever today. just minor delays for visibility. again, the one to two, possibly three inches of snow to tburbs. cape cod, rhode island, or southern connecticut. temperatures will fall during the day. other interesting notes if you're in the southeast, bring the umbrella, heavy rain moving through, and it's very cold in the northern plains just like yesterday, bundle yourself and the kids up. if you're on the west coast, your nasty weather starts tomorrow. you're watching "morning joe." we're brewed by starbucks.

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get a droid razr m by motorola for $49.99. all right. time now to take a look at the morning papers at 25 past the hour. could you take richard haass's cane, which he doesn't need for having surgery for a sports injury. >> what sports injury? you don't play sports. >> what sport was that? >> canasta? >> poor guy. >> let me tell you something -- >> that chess game -- >> you make the wrong move in -- boom, the hip pops out. >> all right. i have some uses for this, as well. >> go ahead.

it's time for mika to read the must-read opinion pages. and let's begin with that yankee journal "usa today." >> what's that movie? you're crazy. you're not right. that's all i'm going to say. a boom of oil and gas productions throughout the nation's heartland is ushering in a new era of prosperity for millions of americans. small town america saw inflation adjusted income jump 3.8% per person since 2007 as opposed to workers in metropolitan areas. >> those numbers are going to change all the more again, united states by 2020, going to be the number one producer of oil across the globe. natural gas exploration exploding across middle america. we are moving into an energy revolution over the next decade. it's not only going to change the face of american demographics and the u.s. economy, it's going to change

our economic standing across the globe. it resets everything. resets everything. >> and all starts tremendous consequences, u.s. reliance and dependence on the middle east obviously changes when we become a larger oil producer than saudi arabia. >> and maybe we can stop fighting wars in the middle east. >> maybe. >> we can go to north dakota instead. i'm telling you, those canadians, i don't trust they will. i do not trust them! >> hey, we need to figure out, what's the line that separates, you know -- >> we need a parallel. >> we need a parallel. a canadian parallel. the canadians and i've been talking about this for years -- >> i'm going to take a poll. may i take the cane and beat joe on the head with it? >> seriously, how many divisions -- >> all those who agree, raise their hands. >> a lot of canadians watch "morning joe." we don't want to hurt you, we want your oil. it would be good, right? is this what the dream of nafta

was all those years ago? >> nafta is one of the great successes. it's working. >> come on. >> big time. >> come on one-worlder. the "new york times" according to a confidential audit, afghanistan's largest financial institution is nothing more than a well-concealed ponzi scheme, more than $800 million in bad loans from the kabul bank have been related to 19 individuals or companies, the bank was promoted by american officials of an example of how free market economies could work in the region. and, of course, they were obviously borrowing from their experiences with our wall street banks. the united states government secretly plotted to nuke the moon? >> i like this. nuke the moon -- >> the atom bomb in display of american strength and power during the cold war -- >> yeah. >> -- the u.s. hoped an atomic blast seen from space would intimidate the soviets but scrapped the plan after concerns were raised about the safety of people back on earth. >> okay.

>> really? >> you like that one, mika? >> and from our parade of papers, "the los angeles times," "two and a half men" star angus t. jones bites the hands that feet him. trashing the very show that not only made him famous, but the show that made him very, very rich. he doesn't like it now. >> jake from "two and a half men" means nothing. he's a non-existent character. "two and a half men," if you watch "two and a half men," please stop watching -- i'm on it, i don't want to be on it. please stop watching it. please stop filling your head with filth. please. >> and he goes on and he has this car cam thing, willie. i'm just wondering what he's going to be thinking -- >> that youngster may not work again. >> i think the show is filthy. >> if you don't like the show, get off the show, don't trash it

while you're on it. >> give your $350,000 back to cbs if it's such filth. $350,000 an episode. one of the highest -- >> that kid's making $350,000 an episode? >> i think that's what i saw. am i right there, john tower? >> yep, yep, $350,000. >> he goes on and trashes it, get off -- you know, get off the show, kid. read your bible, that's fine. i've got no problem with him thinking that it's not consistent with his spiritual values, okay -- >> and the opinion is valuable. >> don't take the $350,000 if you think -- >> give it all back. >> yeah, give it all back or, better yet, give it to your church or give it to me. i've got no qualms. >> you've got to get rid of the cane. >> did he not see the show before he took the job? the charlie sheen version of the show wasn't exactly "the 700 club," it was -- >> i miss "the 700 club." >> that's a good one. >> i sometimes sit with my cane

and my rocking chair out on the porch. >> jim's been sitting here so patiently wondering what's going on. >> i'm trying to figure this out. >> who could fault him for that? live in studio, the executive editor of politico, mr. jim vandehei. sorry about everything that happened. >> well, you know, i spent a lot of time -- i was up there defending that border, preparing for that invasion from canada. >> it was like "red dawn," you and your buddies up in the hills. >> you had your shotguns. >> yeah. >> well, they have higher alcohol content in beer in canada. a lot of cross-border envy. >> exactly. you go across the border, get the beer, come back. >> my computer's been down a couple of days. what happened in that packers/giants game sunday night? >> why you got to do that? >> come on that. >> it's like the storm -- >> knocked out power. >> all the sports websites. >> i can finally talk about it. it takes a day. we sucked, which was bad. there's one good play in the entire game, which is the first time in five years that's happened to us.

>> worried? fear and loathing at lambeau? >> they have to be worried. if they can't stop the front four, they're not going to stop the front four of anybody else. >> problematic. hey, with any luck, andy reid will be coaching the packers next year. >> or rex ryan. >> hey, we'll give you rex. you want rex ryan? >> we're happy with our coach. i would not want to be andy reid. >> no. >> he's going to san diego, barnicle tells me. >> he'd be on san diego next year. >> let's talk about what's in politico. you want to do that? >> love to. >> okay. so fiscal cliff is all the talk of washington, obviously. but you guys are writing this morning, your headline about the other fiscal fight, which is, again, the debt ceiling. >> yeah, i think people forget we have essentially three blink moments, sequestration, the debate, and we hit the debt limit probably some time in february. and you have to raise the debt limit unless you take the

posture that some folks in the democratic party are recommending and saying just raise it unilaterally, have the president do that. i don't think that's what they want to do right now. in the past, congress has had to raise that debt limit. and as you know, house republicans aren't playing around. they don't want to raise the debt limit, don't want to spend more money. if you're a tea party freshman or sophomore now, that's the only issue you ran on. i'm not going to expand the size of government and that is the blink moment for them. i don't think there's a majority of republicans in the house that would vote to increase the debt limit unless forced to by john boehner. >> and by the way, john boehner is talking about having to get the majority of a majority on tax issues. he's not going to get a majority of majority on debt raising. >> much harder on the debt ceiling than taxes. >> that's what i'm saying. i refuse to vote to raise a debt ceiling when they were trying to raise it to $5 trillion. it's something you don't do unless you get a lot of cuts on the other side. >> and it's not a game. because if you don't raise it,

we saw what happened last time, you can get your debt downgraded and has real economic consequenc consequences. and that's why when people think about the fiscal cliff, we all assume that sane minds will prevail and they'll come up with some deal. there's no guarantee that sane minds will prevail. and recent history would suggest that sanity almost never prevails in washington. so you can assume it's going to be more difficult than we think. you can assume that the bush tax cuts might all go away for a short period of time. and you cannot assume they just raise the debt limit. you cannot make that assumption. >> are the president's men and women -- are they under -- are they making the assumption that the house republicans are going to at the end of the day roll because of the election? they're going to get what they want? do they realize that these house republicans were reelected by promising not to raise taxes? by promising not to raise the debt ceiling? by promising not to expand the

debt? >> it's a complicated one to answer. i think there are some folks -- i think the president himself believes he's going to have to cut a deal. despite what democrats say, they know they're going to put entitlement changes on the table. we're going to raise the retirement age of medicare, might fold parts of medicare into one, so you can get efficiencies. that will be on the table. there's going to be cuts. and i don't think it's a mystery about how big the tax increase is going to be. john boehner says 800 billion, the president puts down a $1.6 trillion marker. doesn't take einstein to figure out you get $1.2 trillion. to me, that's going to be the size of the tax increase. you have warren buffett on later today. i think his op-ed in the "new york times" is one of three live options for how you get there. a flat minimum tax for rich people or some cap on deductions, which i think is going to becoming increasingly appealing to lawmakers as they try to solve this or flat out increasing the rates, which is a non-starter for a lot of republicans. i think you're going to see a slightly higher rate with some kind of cap on deductions or

alternative minimum tax for rich people. >> a combination of those two. we've got a lot more to talk about with you. monday night football highlights the eagles showing they don't need michael vick to lose a football game. will coach andy reid survive another week? looking for a better place to put your cash? here's one you may not have thought of -- fidelity. now you don't have to go to a bank to get the things

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all right. time for some sports now. there was a monday night football game last night. pretty much if you're a media family of one the players, you were watching, fantasy football fans might have been watching. eagles trying to avoid losing their seventh straight game at home last night against the panthers, not much better themselves. first quarter cam newton dropped back, play action throw goes to brandon lafell. coasts in for the touchdown, panthers up 14-3. fourth quarter, panthers up two points, cam newton seals the win with a two-yard touchdown run. that's a 250-pound man going in the end zone from quarterback position. panthers win in philly, 30-22. the eagles have not won a game since september 30th. they are now 3-8 this season. after the team's seventh straight loss, andy reid says he

has not spoken to eagles ownership about his future with the team. the questions are that there is no future with the team. >> do you think he has to speak with them? >> i don't think so. i think the writing is on the wall, as they say. speaking of the eagles, as you may know bradley cooper huge eagles fan, was scheduled to appear on the thanksgiving special to promote his new movie "silver linings playbook," which is excellent, by the way, but an nfl media rep says the segment was cut from the show after it had been taped and approved by the nfl network because, quote, the movie includes content related to gambling on nfl games. >> wait -- >> robert de niro plays a part-time bookie in this film. harvey weinstein is calling it censorship. there's violence in the movie. >> it's ridiculous on so many levels. >> the movie is great. >> the movie's great. >> top five movie of the year.

>> i can't wait to see it. i've seen little snippets of it. it looks really good. >> it's so wrong-headed -- >> we have to have bradley back. >> this, to me, bradley cooper's a huge football fan. he promotes the league, hypes philly, it's good for the league. the idea that there's some six degrees of separation to gambling because a fictional film portrays it's going to affect the league somehow. >> the league's as hypersensitive as politicians. >> now we're talking about it in a way no one would have been talking about it. >> do people gamble on nfl games? >> yeah, and i think the league might know about it a little bit. >> aren't the games kind of violent? people get head injuries? right. okay. oh, well. >> up next, mika's must-read opinion pages. keep it on "morning joe." [ female announcer ] the humana walmart-preferred rx plan p-d-p

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all right. it's 46 past the hour. time now for the must-read opinion pages. we're going to start with frank rooney who writes this in the "new york times." is grover finally over? over recent years, the party lost much of its credibility in this discussion by dint of the lavish spending and debt under george w. bush and because of a gimmicky purity in norquist that has done his party damage. there's no place for absolutists and absolutism in a democracy, which is designed for give and take, for compromise. i hope that republicans and democrats alike will keep those principles in mind as we approach the so-called fiscal cliff. norquist certainly hasn't. but then he bears no

responsibility for governing and is concerned less with voters and their welfare than with those of us in the news media who have been too quick to summon him, rewarding his staged and reliable vividness. >> i saw him doing an interview yesterday, i believe it was. about the pledge and those who are now coming out saying they might break the pledge and they were sort of veiled -- like threats in it. and i don't get where he gets the ability -- for what are we afraid of? >> listen, i -- i like grover personally -- >> i know you do, and i do too. >> and let me say, i absolutely love -- like his ability -- he's a public relations genius. because grover -- grover -- all of grover's power doesn't come from grover. he's not like the puppet master. it would be like if i went to capitol hill and represented

sunshine. and sunshine's a good thing, you like sunshine? >> i love sunshine. >> listen, if i run, i'm going to try to make it sunny in our district a lot more. that's me, i'm the sunshine guy. so if i'm the only guy running around saying that, then people are going to say i like the sunshine -- there's that joe, he likes sunshine, i like sunshine. the only reason why grover has any power is because he chose an issue that guys like me believe in anyway. i'm not going to vote to raise taxes. let me make my point. it's important because nobody in the media wants to listen to this. grover's not the bad guy. if you hate grover, then you hate the elected representatives that signed the pledge just so they could have a piece of paper to hold up to represent what they were doing. i never in seven years in congress met somebody going, i don't know what to do because grover might be upset. no, they go, i'm not voting to raise taxes because i'll have my

ass primaried and i'm not coming back here. and i like getting elected. that's what they said. jim, grover has no power outside of the issue that he carries. is that 100% correct? 1,000% correct? >> it's true because he's not the nra. he does not have an activist base that's therefore going to put the kind of pressure that the nra can put on people when it comes to gun issues. his power comes from we all write about him, we all talk about him, and he's the anti-tax guy. i will say -- i totally agree with you. power comes from saying what every single republican agrees with. and even this editorial and other stories on this subject, yes, a couple people are publicly challenging him. still 98% of elected republican officials are now. this is still the dominant theology -- >> and why are they not? not because of grover, but because of theology. >> right. >> this is all anti-tax theology. and the second people stop believing that taxes are --

raising taxes are bad, then grover may go on to being against artificial fillers and popcorn. >> and that's beginning. and you need to see -- >> i haven't heard him say anything about artificial fillers and popcorn movie theaters. grover is the anti-tax guy. and guess what? i'm the anti-tax guy, and 98% of the people in the republican caucus are the anti-tax guy. we think americans are taxed too much. and if you want us to vote to raise to increase taxes, then you're going to have to come with a lot of spending cuts. thatst the b 's the basis of his power. >> there will be tax increases and a lot of republicans will vote for them. you can call them revenue changes. last year before the election, john boehner was on the record in negotiations with the president saying we'll increase revenue by 800. all that means is you're raising taxes. >> they're not going to do that without a lot of cuts, are they? >> no, no, they're going to

probably get cuts, the size of sequestration, which is $1.2 trillion, which is exactly the size of the tax increase that the president's going to demand. >> that's where grover's not unique. you've got people protecting medicare, other entitlements, max baucus saying you can't touch the estate tax. and at the end of the day, do you have a deal here? >> just to underline this, willie, grover is not the nra, doesn't have tons of cash. he doesn't spend cash on elections. grover's not the chamber of commerce. with this huge network of businesses that can lean on people. grover has an idea and people write about him and he goes on tv and that's his power. >> to mika's point, what happens to bob corker, people who have stepped their toe in the water. do they pay any price? i believe they still believe in low taxes, don't you? so why not step off that ledge -- >> if they pay a price in their district, they will pay a price

for reasons that are completely divorced from glove norquist. people in their district are against higher taxes. >> so before i get to richard haass' piece in the "financial times." >> isn't it great? i wept a tear from my eye. before i get to that, is grover over? that's the question. >> well, are -- are -- >> yes or no? >> i mean, grover is over when americans think they aren't taxed enough. that's when grover's over. so you answer that question. answer my question, do americans think that the biggest problem in washington, d.c. is that taxes are just too damn low. >> if you answer it that way, he's not. >> he's not close to being over. >> they're afraid of him -- >> they're not afraid of him, afraid of their constituents. the media seems to think they are. grover's a smart guy and as long as people write about him or let him go on tv and say what he

says, then other people in the media will have their straw man and they can set him up and knock him down. and forget the millions and millions of americans who think they are overtaxed, overregulated, and overcontrolled by a centralized state that is growing like cudzu on a north georgia highway. >> israel should learn how? >> it's not enough to say you can't shoot your way to power, you've got to open up a diplomatic path. and will they open up a diplo t diplomatic path? and the question for the hamas group is will they accept israel? we don't know that. i would simply say that's now one of the half dozen fault lines out there in the middle east. you've got syria, the iranian nuclear thing, the constitutional struggle with an egypt. you potentially have jordan getting in the mix. plus you've now got the oldest of the issues, the israel

israeli/palestinian issue. this is facing barack obama at a time he wants to do more in asia, deal with the fiscal cliff. welcome to your second term. >> a lot to do. richard haa ss. >> how did jerry adams do it? how did the irish terrorists as they were called before the peace deal, how did they not only enforce the peace but then turn to their own bad elements and say, step out of line, and we're going to crush you. >> one was, they couldn't shoot their way to power. tony blair, the irish prime minister gave them a political path that was legitimate. there was a potential there for compromise. they had discipline in their own ranks. >> how did they do that? how would hamas discipline the extremists? >> at some point -- listen, in the history of every opposition movement, there's a time when there's a civil war where people who want to compromise have to deal with the radicals who

don't. the it happened in pre-israel history among the various jewish resistance groups, it'll have to happen with the palestinians. either hamas will be outflanked or they'll have to cut a deal and ultimately stand up. warren buffett, dick durbin, and eugene robinson, we'll be right back. of washington about the future of medicare and social security. anncr: but you deserve straight talk about the options on the... table and what they mean for you and your family. ancr: aarp is cutting through all the political spin. because for our 37 million members, only one word counts. get the facts at earnedasay.org. let's keep medicare... and social security strong for generations to come.

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look who's back. jake tapper's back. he's written a big book with a lot of words. it disturbs us. >> "the untold story of american valor," jake tapper takes us inside his new book. next on morning joe. that was me... the day i learned i had to start insulin for my type 2 diabetes. me... thinking my only option was the vial and syringe dad used.

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critics instead of by a parole board, but i have to hand it to lifetime. even though "liz and dick" are getting terrible reviews, they've turned lemons into lemon nad. >> critics agree, it's the best worst movie of the year. calls it an instant classic of unintentional hilarity. declares "liz and dick is very bad just as you knew it would be." and proclaims, it's so terrible, you'll need to ice your face when it's over. "liz & dick," so bad, you'll have to see it to believe it. >> i'm bored. i'm so bored. >> encore presentation this saturday only on lifetime. >> that is unbelievable. >> yeah, that wasn't a joke. a live look at the white house -- >> is that one of the best reviews, it's so bad, you'll have to ice your face when it's over. >> i seriously thought it was an

"snl" episode -- >> and then there's that. what's worse? "liz and dick" or brad pitt for chanel. >> we're going to do an online poll. you just saw the liz and dick stuff. we never do this. but this is an important issue. what's worse? >> that? >> the liz and dick garbage or this? >> the journey ends, but we go on. the world turns and we turn with it. plans disappear, dreams take over, but wherever i go, there you are. >> definitely that. >> oh, my god. >> so what is a more soul-crushing experience, having to watch the trailer from "liz and dick" or brad pitt's chanel add? >> you don't like the mullet. >> and i'm thinking this guy was

in "fight club?" with clooney? >> i bet you he was joking. >> you're just jealous because he's so sexy. >> mike barnicle's here, jim vandehei's here, and senior white house correspondent for abc news. jake tapper, he's out with an untold story of american valor. that's wonderful to have you in studio. and msnbc contributor jack jacobs. >> and jake's here on an important day. "new york post" is reporting that jake has told all his viewers not to watch abc. that is, quote, filth, and it's against his religion. >> oh, wait a second. that's the "two and a half men" -- >> i tweeted lewis' number to everybody. >> congratulations on the book. from everything we've heard, it's remarkable. but first, let's go to the fiscal cliff.

>> this morning's "washington post" says talks between top republicans is accelerating. they must contend with members of the president's own party who are pushing back to proposals to significantly reshape entitlement programs like medicare and social security. white house press secretary jay carney yesterday said that the president is open to compromise should republicans make a realistic proposal on taxes. >> math tells us that you can't get the kind of balanced approach that you need without having rates be part of the equation. it simply -- we haven't seen a proposal that achieves that, a realistic proposal that achieves that. the reality is closing loopholes and ending deductions as an alternative to raising rates on the top earners, top 2%, those making over $250,000, sounds

good, but you have to look at the contents of those proposals. >> a new poll shows a majority of americans do want compromise in order to avoid the fiscal cliff. 67% say a deal should be a combination of spending cuts and tax increases. and if no deal is reached by the end of the year, it's clear who will take a majority of the blame. 45% say republicans in congress will be at fault compared to 34% for the president. and when it comes to the public's expectations of their elected officials -- >> this is a great question to ask, by the way. >> 2/3 predict they'll act like spoiled children as opposed to responsible adults. >> so, jake, you've got democrats saying if the republicans are responsible on taxes, we'll make a deal. you've got republicans saying if democrats are responsible on entitlements, we'll make a deal. how does this showdown end? >> oh, i don't know how it ends. i'll tell you where they are right now. >> i thought you were supposed to know. >> if you want me to break out my carney to english dictionary. okay. so what carney was saying was that boehner has offered $800

billion in revenue. but their argument is, he wants to do that by eliminating deductions and closing loopholes, and if you do that, the only way to raise $800 billion is by hitting middle class people along with wealthier class people. and so you have to raise rates because you can't even reach $800 billion, boehner's number, president obama as jim pointed out wants $1.6 trillion. you can't reach that number unless you raise taxes on the middle class. >> let's say we get to what jim was suggesting, $1.2 trillion. how do you do that? you close the loopholes, can you knock up the rates, the marginal rates from 35% to 37%? >> i think there's no way to do it without raising rates. except for corporate taxes would have to go up, as well, but that's a separate issue. >> they're not going to probably raise corporate taxes.

>> no, i don't think so. >> they'll end up doing, they'll have to slightly raise rates, cap total deductions for anybody making over $250,000, which will have an affect of how much of your mortgage to write off, how much of your charity to write off. there'll probably be a higher tax on investment and carried interest which doesn't get as much attention. but you do have pieces of income, particularly for rich people that don't get taxed at a high rate -- >> capital gains, for instance -- >> is going to go up. >> are republicans going to be moving on capital gains, agreeing to move it from like 5% to 20%? >> they're not going to want to go up on any of these things, but are going to at the end of the day. the idea that liberals don't want to do anything on social spending, entitlement reform. well, of course they don't. just like republicans don't want to raise taxes at the end of the day, republicans are going to raise taxes and democrats are going to be for some entitlement reform. >> what's the end of the day? that's the question? what's the end of the day? is it december 31st? i don't think that the end of the day is december 31st.

>> oh, come on. >> i don't. >> that would be bad for the country. >> it's mechanically impossible for it to be done at the end of this year. >> i think we'll go over the fiscal cliff for a couple of days. i do, i think the people are going to have to be forced. it's like the movie saw, you know. you have to either saw off your arm or die and -- >> dude. >> sorry, it's a morning audience. >> you go seesaw? how many have you seen? all 14? >> i'm really more of a "final destination" guy. >> you obviously did see the movies. andrew scarborough sees all the "saw" movies and i'm like, dude, i'm eating here. >> five times each. >> yeah, anyway. you want to talk about "star wars"? >> is that the only way boehner gets the votes? >> i think it's tough to do without making the argument that

you need to compromise. as has been pointed out, 218 people have signed that norquist pledge. all these senate republicans, it doesn't matter what they say. it's the house republicans that matters. it's the house. >> based on your reporting, who has the harder job? president obama getting nancy pelosi's democratic caucus to go along with cuts on medicare or john boehner getting the house republicans to agree to higher taxes? >> i think boehner. >> emphatically boehner. pelosi has a long track record of sticking out a position and doing what the president wants her to do at the end of the day. this isn't 1995, he doesn't have the power that newt gingrich or tom delay had. he can't just order his troops to vote. he probably only controls at best half of his conference. >> and so this really is difficult work for him. >> he's not going to get the majority. we hear he's going to get the majority, but he's not going to get the majority of the majority.

>> and remember, the people in his caucus are not worried about running against a democrat. they are worried about a challenge in the primary. >> right. >> i think only 20 of them had competitive house races in the general election. >> we have jack here. let's go to the outpost, jake, and tell us about the book. you take a look at one of the deadliest battles in northern afghanistan. >> it was in northeastern afghanistan, where the man would be king takes place. it was an outpost put at the bottom of three steep mountains just 14 miles from the pakistan border. and for years, troops that served there were warning this is not going to end well, this is too dangerous. we're surrounded by high ground and eventually on october 3rd, 2009, 53 u.s. troops were attacked by about 400 taliban. the deadliest day for u.s. troops that year, but an

unbelievable story of heroism and valor. the americans who died that day, a man died risking his life and sacrificing his life to either return fire or to do something for his fellow troops. so that's what the book is about. >> you say, though, it was also, unfortunately, a story of soldiers placed at the mercy of reckless commanders. >> well, ultramaltly the reason that the outpost was put where it was. there were a number of reasons why it was put in the vulnerable places. but one of the reason was they didn't have enough helicopters in afghanistan at the time. they were all in iraq. and one of the reasons it was put there in that vulnerable spot was because it had to be near a road in order to do resupply and there was no other way -- no other place to put it. that's why it ended up at the bottom of a mountain. if you send troops into battle and they don't have enough men and don't have enough assets, they're in trouble. >> and it's also -- the book is so compelling because it is a story of people we know. and yet, the nation has turned a

blind eye to the war in afghanistan. you can go days on end without encountering anyone who has a son or daughter in afghanistan. but the book itself, specifically, where the engagement occurs and jack jacobs could speak of this. the fundamental lack of knowledge about terrain features, about the population, the indigenous population, the language, which is foreign, even to other elements in afghanistan. the lack of equipment. >> yeah. >> the command and control. having very scant knowledge of what's going on on the ground. >> yeah. >> it is shocking, shocking to think we were fighting this war, where the war actually began on september 11th when so many resources have been devoted to iraq. and there they were without helicopters. >> and jack jacobs looking at the focus of the outpost, jake's book, "the terrain," that you mentioned, is what defines the

difficulty of this war. >> yeah, reminded of other horrible situations in which troops were established in low areas surrounded on three or sometimes four sides by high terrain, from which the enemy could pour fire down on top of you. it's happened before in history. every single time it was a disaster. it's going to happen again, unfortunately, and it's just lousy leadership, poor decision making. >> well, one of the things i found most compelling in writing this book is how hungry the troops were to have their stories told. and, in fact, when i started the book project, it was originally just going to be about the battle, the guys stationed there in 2009. and others heard about the book and started reaching out. tell my story, tell the stories of our commanders in 2006 who died. guys from 2007 said we had some successes, tell the story of our successes, tell the storystoried

ultimately they were so hungry to have the american people know what they were doing because they felt like nobody cared. >> jake, how many times did you go to afghanistan in reporting the book? >> twice. >> talk about the culture shock from sitting in the white house briefing room sort of listening to the spin of the day and going to afghanistan, hearing these stories, seeing the human tragedy, seeing the reality. >> it's one of the reasons i wrote the book, i'd been covering the war from the comfort of the north lawn of the white house where the toughest thing i have going is chuck todd and ed henry speaking too loud during a live shot. which is ugly. which is ugly. >> yeah. >> but i'd been there and we'd been battling around discussing this surge that year and president obama's review and talking about 10,000 troops, 20,000 troops, 40,000 troops and i was in the hospital room with my newborn son jack and i heard this story a day after my son was born. and i heard this story about eight other sons taken from the

world. and i wanted to know more. and eight troops, eight people dying was a lot more real to me than 40,000. >> and you were talking to me about how hungry these soldiers were to have their stories told and have their stories never forgotten. you were presented with one of the last flags? >> oh, yeah, that was so -- so we had our book launch in washington there, yeah, that's now major stoney portis giving me one of the flags flown over -- that's my wife. it was unbelievable. i had just gotten through speaking and talking about how i didn't deserve any attention for talking about their stories and captain portis got up and presented me with one of the flags that had flown over the camp. one of the few that survived the attack. because during the attack, the whole camp also caught on fire. and that was -- yeah, i don't even like looking at it it makes me so emotional. but that was an unbelievably moving moment for me personally. >> there are so many aspects of

the book that deserve attention, but one of the more compelling aspects of the book is that you'll be reading the book and you'll encounter a letter that, you know, ben keating wrote to his parents, and clearly the parents gave you the letter because they symbolize so many parents o out there who tell my son's story. tell the country what my son endured. >> and ben keating, who the camp was named after, the sixth anniversary of his death was yesterday. and here's a young guy, a lieutenant from maine, his parents are ministers, he enrolls in the military. goes through rotc, and because he thinks that some day he's going to be a senator voting on sending troops into battle, and he wants to make sure he serves, goes through what everybody else -- the people he's going to be sending into battle go through. ultimately does not make it out of afghanistan. but these guys -- and you guys

know this. but these troops, went from the private to the captain level. they are just the best this country has to offer. it sounds corny and cliche, but every one of them for the most part, you know, just salt of the earth. and so selfless. and what their families go through. their wives and moms and kids go through is just unbelievable. and we don't pay a lot of attention to it in this country. >> jake, did you have troops you talked anywhere in the chain of command talking at length about how they thought that they were failed by the people who put them there about the people who did not support them? >> not on the record. you know, a lot of them are still respectful of chain of command. but one of the things that happens in this book is jared monty who is awarded a medal during a fire fight stands up

and runs into a hail of bullets, rockets, grenades to save this guy, brian bradbury, had to of known he probably was not going to survive. he did not. he was awarded the medal of honor. one of the reasons that his group was attacked was because the mission was under manned. it's complicated. but the bottom line is somebody got hurt, and because they got hurt, they had to delay the mission. and ultimately that had to deliver food to monty's group and they were discovered by insurgents and that's jared monty, paul monty, his father is in the book talking about how derelict he thought the commanders were -- how could they send my son into battle when they don't even have enough men so that it ends up risking and costing his life? >> jake, we talk about it an awful lot here, the best men and women that we have have been fighting this war for over a decade now. it started on september 11th,

2001. you have kids that were, you know, at bus stops in first, second, third grade when it started. and americans just aren't focused enough on what they do day in and day out. but i'll tell you what, thanks to you, sebastian younger, has been writing work. maybe more americans are going to start focusing in on the sacrifice. it had to be so humbling for you to see these heroes who refuse to be called heroes. >> oh, yeah, no -- it's unbelievable. >> and refuse to break ranks and talk about, undermanned, badly located, surrounded, and feeling like sitting ducks, i mean -- >> but their focus when you talk to them, you know, they'll acknowledge that and some of them are mad about that, but their focus is, but let me tell you about what this one sergeant did for me, or what my lieutenant did on this

unbelievable day. i think we're going to hear more about some of the heroes of the actual bottle october 3rd, 2009, in the days ahead because some of them will be given some big awards. >> we hear about the greatest generation. but anybody who has spent any time around the men and women that fought over the past decade in iraq and in afghanistan, despite all of the bad acting in washington, d.c., you can't look at what they did under the worst of circumstances and say any generation sacrificed more or cared more than they. >> there's one line in the book that gets to 12 years worth of war over there and untold lives changed, altered, lost, and i think it's joe fenty who says to a village elder that the government of afghanistan is going to do something for them. and the elder says, the government of afghanistan, what is that? >> yeah. >> yeah. >> jake tapper, giving voice to the outpost.

thank you very much. stay with us. coming up warren buffett will join us onset. and next, we'll talk to dick durbin about his address today laying out the progressive case for a bipartisan fiscal cliff deal. also, "washington post" columnist eugene robinson joins the conversation. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ female announcer ] imagine skin so healthy, it never gets dry again. can your moisturizer do that? [ female announcer ] dermatologist recommended aveeno has an oat formula, now proven to build a moisture reserve, so skin can replenish itself. that's healthy skin for life. only from aveeno.

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26 past the hour, here with us now, democratic senator from illinois and senate majority leader senator dick durbin. also with us from "washington post," msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. gentlemen, thanks for joining the conversation this morning. >> thank you guys so much. dick, let's start with you, a senator -- we're asking republicans what they're willing

to move on when it comes to tax increases. what did democrats need to move on when it comes to entitlement reform? when it comes to the spending cuts that will be required to get to the $4 trillion number? >> joe, i listen to the voices from the left and many of them say don't touch any of the entitlement programs. i don't think that's a responsible approach. first, social security doesn't add one penny to the deficit. we should put together something like a simpson/bowles commission. right now it's going to last for another 22 years untouched, but let's make sure it's stronger, longer. but when it comes to the other entitlement programs, medicare and medicaid, we've got to make certain that we preserve these basic programs, not to go the route of the paul ryan voucherizing, leaving senioring vulnerable for health insurance they cannot find or cannot afford. but make sure we change the program to save the money, reduce the increase in health

care costs. medicaid is the one i'll add, joe, that concerns me the most. it has the least politically articulate constituency. these are the poorest people in america. we've got to make sure at the end of the day, we protect the children, mothers with babies, and particularly the frail elderly being covered by medicaid. we can make changes there and preserve the basic integrity of these programs. >> well, of course, people in medicaid don't have the aarp fighting for them day in and day out, running 30-second ads. isn't that one of the great risks here as we try to put together a budget deal that even if republicans decide to raise taxes that both sides may be afraid to touch the middle class entitlement instead go after medicaid? >> joe, i think it is a concern on a challenge. but untouched, unchanged, medicare runs out of money in 12 years. 12 years. many of us plan to be around in 12 years and our children need to be covered when they're

eligible, as well. and so we've got to look to savings in medicare that preserve the basic program but reduce the growth in the cost of the medicare program. and let me add this too, those of us in higher income categories who retire should pay lower premiums, i think that's a reality that we all should accept. >> quick question for you, could you give us in any tangible way an outline of cuts that you would be willing to vote for. further means testing of medicare? what exactly -- what changes would you be willing to make? >> higher income people should pay more, i also think that we need more competition when it comes to the medicare prescription drug program. i think we ought to have offered by the program a separate prescription drug with low cost, low overhead option for seniors to take. i think that will bring down the

cost. i think we need to encourage more competition, and we need to reward good practices. we find that the fee for service model is devastating our health care system, raising the cost far beyond what we can afford. but there are those who are focused on the health of the patient instead of the number of tests and procedures that are getting better results and lower cost -- >> senator, what about the possibility of raising the age if you have a carve out for let's say blue collar workers that engage in, you know, hazardous work or pretty rough work throughout the course of their lives? >> here's my concern, joe, i had a brother who passed away. after he retired from a major corporation, one of the fortune 500s in management, he had a terrible heart attack and procedure, surgical procedure, they canceled his health insurance, and my right wing conservative republican california brother was praying for the day when medicare kicked in. he had no coverage and couldn't afford to buy it.

so when you extend the medicare eligibility age, i clearly want to fill that gap with coverage, affordable, accessible health insurance for those who were in their 60s and are going to need that coverage even though medicare isn't officially onboard. >> is that going to cost more money? we all want to make sure that people out of work don't die of heart attacks because they don't have health insurance. we're not talking about expanding programs, we're talking about how we save medicare and medicaid because both of those programs are not only going bankrupt, they're going to bankrupt this country. how do we do that? you're telling us what you want to do to maybe add a new program. what do we do to save the existing programs we have from bankrupting the country? >> one thing is obama care, as much as it's been kicked around during the course of the campaign. the notion that we're going to have everyone in america under the protection of health insurance is a good one. and it answers the challenge which i raised earlier about the medicare retirement age. let's make sure there's seamless

conch. but within the medicare program, we're trying to move toward prevention, to make sure that seniors and others covered are going to learn early on what the challenges might be. >> senator, with all due respect, yo uh sound an awful like trying to nail down eric cantor yesterday on what taxes you're willing to raise. all you're doing is telling us obama care is good, you want gaps -- again, i'm talking to the man who actually had the courage to vote for simpson/bowles when one of my heroes, paul ryan would not. so i give you great respect for the courage you've shown in the past. but if we're just going to talk this way and sort of stake out our positions on our side, we should probably move on to afghanistan or another issue. >> joe, let me be specific. what we did in simpson/bowles was to set targets for savings in this health care programs, and we must do it. and then sit down and say what are the changes we can make within the programs that don't challenge their integrity but basically reduce their costs. and we can do those.

it was a long list in simpson/bowles. there were 20 options given to us. and there were many things i could support. but to sit here and tick off the two or three that would be the easy parts, i don't think it is going to be that simple. i think we've got to be able to attack the entitlement programs, but do it in a sensible way that doesn't destroy them. >> okay. we hope both sides can do that. eugene robinson, you write in "washington post" today about breaking grover norquist's anti-tax pledge. you call him a genial man who has dangerously loopy ideas. >> let them say that about me. >> well, you know, he kind of -- that's kind of what i think about grover. and he says nobody is caving on the pledge, but, you know, spidery cracks are appealing in the ceiling. look, i think that would be a good thing. what would be really good. you were just talking to senator durbin. what would be really good is if this sort of bland smoke,

frankly, senator durbin's a friend of mine. but this bland smoke we're hearing on entitlements from democrats and taxes from republicans, if -- behind closed doors they're able to talk more specifically. i think this is what represents, actually, some kind of progress and i'm starting to feel a bit more hopeful than i was a few weeks ago that maybe we're going to start to get somewhere. >> yeah. maybe. i don't know. >> do we still have senator durbin with us? >> yes, i'm still here. >> i don't think he's run away. >> senator durbin, can you talk about putting medicaid to the side, social security to the side, focusing on medicare. put a dollar figure out. how much savings do you think is a reasonable number that democrats could tolerate? we know that the school of thought on taxes is somewhere between 800 and 1.6. we know that spending cuts will probably be $1.2 trillion or

north of that. what number could you live with in specific reductions in medicare? >> that's exactly what i called zeke emmanuel and asked a few months ago. i said what is the number where we can reduce the health care costs in this country and not jeopardize the integrity of the programs? he came up with the range of about $400 billion. i think that is something we should start working with. i think that is an indication of where we should go, but keep in mind, i -- i respect gene robinson very, very much. but if i sound bland and general at this point, it's exactly to the point he made. when the doors close and we sit down with revenue on one side and entitlements on the other side, then we get specific and come up with a bipartisan plan. >> senator, senator -- >> let me say, first of all, everybody at this table is shocked, stunned, and deeply saddened that gene robinson would call you bland. whenever anybody asks us about dick durbin, you know what we say?

he is like a flaming super nova. >> spicy meatball. >> he is a spicy meatball. >> he is the mick jagger of the senate without the paternity insurance. >> he is the mick jagger of the senate and there's no dispute on that. i was referring to the words we just heard from senator durbin, which i think he will acknowledge were bland and nonspecific. and there was a reason. but, senator, what's your level of optimism, senator, about actually getting together? >> let me say, first, i'll make this disclosure on "morning joe." it was a close contest between me and brad pitt for chanel number 5. >> thank god you won and didn't have to do the commercial. >> listen, i have a positive feeling about what we're facing here. i admire the colleagues on both sides who are stepping up. i've been at this for two years with simpson/bowles. i think we have a moment where we can seize this opportunity. if you saw the spielberg lincoln movie, he says we want to prove

democracy is not chaos. and that's what we have to prove in this generation. thank goodness without the loss of life, but the challenge of our time. >> thank you. very much. we'll look for you in the next chanel ad. >> not likely. >> eugene robinson, your column online at washingtonpost.com. >> thank you, guys. >> maybe he can look at my turkey that i have a picture of it -- >> i don't think we'll -- >> my dad gave it a "v" for victory. tom colicchio joins us next. lawmakers and their efforts to promote healthy eating. that's not healthy, tom. let's hope he doesn't grade the "morning joe" crew. or should he? we'll be right back.

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hey, welcome back to "morning joe." the book we've been talking about this morning is "the outpost" by jake tapper. you need to read it for so many reasons, but mainly because he gives voice to so many american heroes who have had no voice over the past 10, 11 years, and we got a really nice e-mail from somebody that we want to read on the air.

alex. >> this is liz from emerald isle. my husband just got home three days ago, thanks for not forgetting about what he and other americans were doing. >> that sums it up. >> it's a very important book and we appreciate you coming on. >> good having you on the show too. >> well, normally i have a conflict, but it's nice to be here. >> it's filth, right? that's what he said, right? >> he called it filth. i'm just thinking if you're writing my check -- >> i wouldn't bite the hand -- >> if you're still talking about that "two and a half men" kid, i agree with his assessment. that show is trash. it's awful. >> thank you for being honest and not a suck-up. >> but making $350,000 per episode. >> i'm sure he's giving all the money to the church. >> have you seen it? >> i saw five minutes of it -- >> it's awful. it's filth. >> it is filth. >> somebody was in bed with someone else they met five minutes ago and they were having

sex. >> maybe you only saw the worst five minutes. >> what? >> charlie sheen started it. it hasn't changed. >> it was disgusting. >> okay, tipper gore, let's go. good lord. >> tipper had a point, by the way. >> all right. do you have a bumper sticker on the back of your vw that says tipper gore was right? >> i don't have a vw. >> still ahead warren buffett joins us on the set. and up next, tom colicchio. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro.

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the stuffing? >> he gave us the freedom to express ourselves within his own sort of plan. pretty exciting to work next to tom colicchio while he's actually working. >> it's crazy how fast this clock moves. why don't we get the meatball done? >> he wants me to make turkey meatballs, it makes me worry but i'm not going to say no to tom. >> oh, yeah, thanksgiving time. >> yum, yum, yum, yum -- >> what are you doing? stuffing. >> 47 past the hour. chef and owner of witchcraft tom colicchio, when he isn't busy as judge as bravo's top chef, he's on the board of food policy action. they're out with a new score card that rates lawmakers on critical floor votes related to food. we'll get to that in a moment.

>> by the way, you've brought some very healthy -- >> you're a bad, bad boy. >> very now and then -- >> i've already had two or three, they're fantastic. >> he just gave me a turkey recipe. i'm very excited. >> yeah, i'm on the twitter with all the kids on my machine. and i see the big question that's being asked, not about the fiscal cliff, it's about thanksgiving turkeys, and you weighed in -- >> to brine or not to brine. >> and your answer is? >> do not brine. >> tell mika what brining is. >> usually if you take a mixture of salt and sugar and water and submerge your turkey for 24, 48 hours, and in theory it flavors the bird and makes it moist. i don't believe that happens. it also changes the texture, more like deli meat as opposed to roast turkey, the skin doesn't get crisp, and you can't make gravy -- >> that's what vandehei says. >> my dad is the turkey god and

he brines for 24 hours and grills it, and it's the juiciest, tastiest bird i've ever had. i'll take your word, you're the professional. >> you say you have -- he's saying you have a -- the turkey king of oshkosh. it sounds like a line out of "ferris beuller's day off." how do you make your turkey? >> fresh herbs and butter under the skin, 450 degree oven for half an hour, baste every 15 minutes. guaranteed moist, flavorful bird. also, don't buy a frozen bird, buy a nigh heritage bird. big difference. >> that's a step up from taking out of the wrapper and -- >> if it comes in a wrapper, and a pop-up topper, you're in trouble. >> mine turned out well this year. my father said he was going to bring provisional sandwiches just in case. look, tom. fresh out of my oven. and then my father gave it the

"v" for victory sign when i asked what he thought. >> okay. >> this tastes like deli meat. >> that's what he was saying. >> actually ranked lawmakers on what basis? >> on food policy. food policy whether it's hunger issues, food safety issues, local farming and kind of rated them on food policy. >> what did you find when you dug in? >> we post -- in fact, today a letter is going to the house saying that it votes in the lame duck on the farm bill, we will rate that. what we found is a lot of people were very happy with their scores, and some people weren't so happy with their scores. but, you know, i look at this more from a consumer side of politics. for instance if i care about food issues -- so this is a value of mine -- if i care about feeding hungry people, if i care

about making sure our food is safe, i have a place now where i can go, i can see when votes are coming to the floor and i can call my politicians and kind of sort of prod them to vote the way i want to vote. and so i look at this more as a values issue. because it's very difficult. listen, i think the average person doesn't sit there for hours and look at c-span. >> of course we're losers. so who are the lobbyists on the other side that are actually working against your goals? >> we just started so it's hard to say. i really couldn't tell you but i think there's probably -- i tell you, it's not the usda or the epa but -- which seems to, you know -- there seems to be a lot of pushback against both groups. it's hard to say right now. we just came out a month ago and, you know, it's a mixed bag. there are plenty of people who get high scores and some that

don't. >> what's the biggest challenge on food safety? >> on food safety it's really just processing. also the biggest problem right now is antibiotics in animals. it's causing a major problem. i see it in hog growing regions. there's huge outbreaks of things like mersa, bacterial infections that we can't control anymore. a ma skrort jority out there ar animals and not used in humans. when you put them in combined feed lots to grow them indoors and closed food quarters, you have to pump them with antibiotics or they'll die. so this is done in advance of infection. it's not done once the animal is infected. this is done in advance. >> so how do we regulate that? how do we stop that? >> it's policy. fad policy. >> which is complicated and cumbersome. >> of course. but these are some of the things that we're rating. there are votes that come up. >> tom colicchio, great to have you on the show. thank you very much. >> thank you, tom.

tom came bearing gifts. this is great. >> yeah, that's -- >> turkey king of osh kosh. very good. >> still ahead, warren buffett joins us on set. >> do you have a recipe put down on paper? okay, i want him to put it down on paper and for tom to score it. >> we'll get it for him. >> keep it here on "morning joe." hey big guy, i want to get a big tv for my big family, for the big holiday. we like to watch big games. we got a big spread together... so it's gotta be big. how about the 55-inch lg tv. it's led and has incredible picture quality... that's big... but i got a little budget. with the walmart credit card special financing you can go big this year. that's big time! alright! [ male announcer ] get the season's hottest brands, like an lg 55-inch led tv. make an electronics purchase

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when we come back, what new poll numbers tell us about president obama's position heading into budget talks and new jersey governor stands in the wake of hurricane sandy. keep it here on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] it's that time of year again.

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good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast. 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. time to wake up, everyone, as you take a live look at new york city, back with us on set we have mike barnicle and richard haass. >> you know, willie, i'm big on hard news. >> i have some right here. >> i was asking how do you keep up with the news? i read "the new york post" 0. you see halle berry's baby daddy. new boyfriend and the new boyfriend doesn't like the old boyfriend. this guy that's beaten up, he's a really pretty french guy. underwear model. >> by the way, that was on thanksgiving day. >> underwear model. thanksgiving day. >> a child custody dispute. got his rear end handed to him. >> i hope he gets paid only for showing underwear because if they show his face, it's not

good. if they do show his face -- >> it's too early for this. >> i have somebody that is available and whose face is still all intact despite the fact he's lost his mind. let's listen. >> what is this? >> let's had listen. >> plans disappear, dreams take over, but wherever i go there you are. my luck, my fate, my fortune. chanel number 5. >> in the words of my 14-year-old daughter -- >> what happened? >> get over yourself. >> what happened? willie, this is a guy that i worship on fight club. >> that was great episode of "snl." >> that guy was on fight club. >> i don't know what to say. i still like the man.

>> how? >> he puts on a good movie. >> he was on fight club and now this? what has angelina done? >> no, it's the attention that he gets. >> what has happened? certain parts of that man have been placed in a locked box, and he needs them back. >> it's not like he needs to raise cash, i don't think. >> no, twhaes goiwhat's going o? >> i bet he did it for a charity. donated the money to a charity. >> he has 87 kids from across the globe. maybe that's the charity. >> we should get hold of clooney and weintraub. >> you know what jerry would say? i don't know what's going on in that noggin of yours, okay? right now i have to say it's like three rocks knocking together. what the hell, son? you're ruining yourself. you're ruining yourself. >> if you know george clooney, i

know you know him a little bit, he must have just killed brad pitt, the first day it came out. my god. >> i think he lost a bet. >> to george clooney. exactly. >> that's a possibility. >> now that's okay. if he lost a bet to george clooney, that's awesome. you know what would take george clooney to -- george clooney would do something like that under one condition, if he were in a coffin and they put a wig on him. >> it's not right. >> it's just not right. >> can i do the news now? three weeks after his re-election a majority of americans approve the job president obama is doing in office. at 52%, it's the highest approval marks the president has received from the cnn/orc survey since may. the majority of people say his experience over the first four years will make him a better president in the second term. there is measured optimism, however, about the future. 56% believe the country will be better off four years from now, compared to four years ago when 76% felt that way. moving on now, governor

chris christie is getting ready for a second tem. the raemian governor has filed paperwork to run for re-election. christie current ly enjoys a record high approval rating following his hands-on response to hurricane sandy. before the storm 56% of rejs e registered voters approved. after sandy, those same voters were surveyed again -- >> look at these numbers. >> 77% approval rating. >> keep that up. willie, you're a new jersey guy. a new jersey native. i'm sure you can't remember a governor having a 77% approval rating. a republican governor in a blue state having a 77% -- 67% of democrats in new jersey give chris christie a positive rate. he's defying gravity politically. >> by historical new jersey standards in these polls, that

56% number was outrageous to begin with. >> outrageously how? >> a republican governor in the state of new jersey. now you look at 77%? yes, it's the storm, but it's also what we saw on the show, i think it was two weeks ago, he and randi sitting down, his ability to get things done. people don't like his style, they don't like the way he does things, but they recognize he is working with the other side. the thing we don't see much of in washington to get things done for the people so, yes, it's the storm but it's also the body of what he's done. >> and, mike, it's so unusual in a state like new jersey where scandal seems to chase one major politician after another from torricelli to menendez. so many scandals in the state. who would have believed this big guy who came out of nowhere would rise above them all. it is stunning stuff. >> big guy and a big lesson to be learned by others in that business. you can speak your mind, as chris christie does, every day, all day. you can speak your mind and get away with it.

that's not the -- >> be rewarded for it. >> be rewarded for it by behaving the way chris christie did. by appearing with the president of the united states, by acknowledging the president came, thank you very much for all your help in new jersey, and appear to be and indeed be bipartisan. look at the rewards. people recognize that. >> i just wonder if during hurricane sandy if mitt romney had said, you know, i really, really, really appreciate what the president is doing at this time in a crisis for our country, we support what he is doing, we support the people in new jersey and new york and new york city, and also during foreign policy crises where there might have been some alignment if mitt romney had just said the president is doing the right thing or maybe even stayed out of the way, might it have made a difference? there were times when that happens, when they can actually agree. >> well, absolutely. and mitt romney polled well when he talked about his ability to work across the aisle when he was governor of massachusetts. his message for what's going on

it in washington now. people want to see results. they're tired of gridlock. they're tired of the endless ideological warfare and the previous numbers, the fact that the president's numbers are up, actually hope it helps moving into these negotiations about the fiscal cliff and all else. essentially the message in washington, we actually now need to see a little bit of progress. >> another possible republican contender, former governor jeb bush met yesterday with former staffers near the white house where he reportedly entertained questions about his political future. according to the national review, governor bush sat down with a number of veteran florida operatives along with mitt romney's campaign pollster. the article says mr. bush, quote, remained coy about making a run for the white house, instead deflecting the focus towards his efforts on educational reform. >> and the question is, richard, the report had the headline bush iii. are americans going to -- regardless of how qualified he is, are they going to be turned

off by possibly electing a bush when you have history of bush for eight years, clinton for eight years, obama for eight years, another bush, when there was actually, you know -- well, wait. bush, clinton, bush, obama, bush. >> probably due for another obama. i think bush, like christie, is a republican who has crossover appeal. he has tremendous support among hispanics because of his position on immigration reform. tonight i'm actually going to be with governor bush. condi rice and joe klein are doing a summit talking about the need for educational reform as a big national security challenge unless we get k-12 education right. we're not going to get this country right and a the fact someone like jeb bush has become one of the champions of education reform to me shows how republicans can are have tremendous appeal if they go beyond the narrow agenda. >> what do you think? >> i think he has enormous

appeal. a very attractive candidate. as richard pointed out, he is not the republican candidate we've seen in the past couple of elections. he has enormous appeal to the hispanic community in this country. he has a real -- he's been a governor. he has made decisions. he's worked with legislatures. he knows how to get things done. >> does his last name hurt him? >> i think given the attention span in this country it doesn't hurt him as metropolitan as we think right now. it would be four more years before he would be on the ballot. i think a whole new demographic out there. he has enormous appeal. we've had him here. he's an enormously appealing guy. >> i've liked him for a very long time. moving on to other news. i would like to to get both of your insights on this. susan rice is had heading to capitol hill today to meet with some of her toughest republican critics and answer questions about the september 11 attack on the u.s. consulate in benghazi. rice will sit down with senators john mccain, lindsey graham and kelly ayotte who accuse her of

misleading the country in her initial account of the attack. in recent days senator mccain has softened his criticism as rice insists that she was relying on talking points from the init tell generals community. now last night senator graham rae jekted her defense but said he's open to today's meeting. >> she asked to meet with us, and i will listen to what she has to say about her role in benghazi. the more i know about benghazi, the more upset i am that the consulate was even open on september 11. when you look at the history and the reporting coming out of libya about the dangers, it should never have been opened or heavily reinforced. after the attack the story we were told about a spontaneous event caused by a video where a mob turned into a riot is less kr credible than ever. >> she reportedly called the meeting. it seems like a smart move. what do you think? >> yeah. well, i think it's a smart move 0 for john mccain to take the meeting.

they're boxed in. this is not a fight they want right now. it was a stupid fight to pick. they put themselves into a corner. now they have to figure out a way to get out of that corner and they're going to do it. they're going to talk to her and senator mccain will be gracious to her and, again, all the questions that are being asked about benghazi that are reasonable, rational questions that most americans have unless they're extreme left wingers on twitter, or joe klein, those are questions that are logical questions that need to be asked. we love you, joe. seriously, yesterday, i'm not sure what you were on. >> no, i know what he was on. the truth. >> whatever. what the hell ever. listen, there are legitimate questions to be asked. >> there absolutely are. there are some dumb ones, too. >> even though left-wing partisans don't want those questions to be asked. however, richard, there are a lot of questions to be asked about benghazi, but john mccain and lindsey graham asked all the

wrong ones. and they went after the wrong person. this was not susan rice's problem. >> she was a spokesperson for the administration. she is up to be potentially secretary of state. she is not up to be mayor of benghazi. they should have her up there, but ultimately they should ask her about trade policy and china policy and what she would do about other issues in the middle east. the president elect of mexico, what would she do about u.s./mexican relations. she has been ambassador to the u.n. what about what's going on in the u.n. this week with the palestinians looking for, you know, to have their status -- there's an entire agenda. the eidea we're focusing on one set of talking points is ridiculous. >> i know you would be a pretty nonpartisan guy. do you smell anything fishy with this benghazi investigation or the way it was handled? do you sense any incompetence? because if you talk to john mccain or lindsey graham, you

ask them the question, are we talking about a cover-up or general incompetence and they say we don't know. that's why we'll have to investigate. do you see anything there? >> the most serious issue why did the state department origin originally turn down all the requests for added security? why did the ambassador go without adequate security? that's a real issue. why were these decisions made? the question then on the talking points and what did the cia provide, why was the security community late in apparently getting the points right? it's not the first time we've seen things like that. it's worth looking at. the idea that a month later we're still focusing on this rather than basic questions of foreign policy, on how to deal with terrorism in these areas, seems to me we are missing the main event. we're lacking for scandal when it simply may have been a bit of incompetence or bureaucratic normal stuff. up next the chairman and ceo of berkshire hathaway. warren buffett joins us on set along with carol loomis. here to discuss her new book about the oracle of omaha.

but first, bill karins. >> here is bill. he's great. we love him. >> that's it? there's no catches? there's nothing else? these bi-polar weather teases keep my on my toes. snow it moving into new england. this is reading, pennsylvania. pennsylvania, so far so good. the roads have been wet. a little coating on the grass. this is what we'll see through new jersey. temperatures continue to be above freezing. so this is almost like it's raining anyway as far as your impacts on travel. let me show you what it looks like. any spots with accumulation on the road, up in the poconos, southern portions of the hudson valley and near allentown is where we could pick up two to three inches and the roads would be slick. the white shows you where the snow is. and it looks like that rain line over philadelphia to newark to new york city, again, those areas continue to be in the upper 30s. so far so good at the airports. only a 15-minute delay down there at baltimore. so farce snow accumulations go, a slushy inch. again, mostly outside of new

york city. philadelphia, north and west of you, possibly two to three inches and southern new england an inch. just an ugly, gloomy, wet day more than anything else. we also have rain moving through the southeast. heavy rain at that. some thunderstorms moving down to mobile and to new orleans. and it's a chilly morning in the midwest. bundle yourself and the kids up as you head out to work and out to school. and tomorrow's big weather story will be on the west coast. a three-day rain event. we leave you with the shot of new york city. expecting some wet snow. it will feel like rain, though, with temperatures near 40 degrees. [ woman ] ring. ring. progresso. i just finished a bowl of your new light chicken pot pie soup and it's so rich and creamy... is it really 100 calories? let me put you on webcan... ...lean roasted chicken... and a creamy broth mmm i can still see you. [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup.

i think what we need to do, and the president believes this, is let's go for the big deal. let's go for something we can say for a 10 to 20-year period for the first time in a long time our 0 country is on the right fiscal path. the only way that gets done is for republicans, again, to step out and get criticized by grover norquist and it means democrats are going to have to do some tough things on spending entitlements that they'll get criticized by their left. >> all right. welcome back to "morning joe." 20 past the hour. the chairman of berkshire hathaway, warren buffett, along with close friend, senior editor at large, carol loomis. out with a new book "tap dancing to work." warren buffett on practically everything. 1966 to 2012. a compilation of and expansion on years of "fortune" articles

on the oracle of omaha. >> do i ask you a question and pretend he's not here? do i ask him a question? how do i work this? >> you're experienced it at this. >> i'm going to pretend he's not here for a second. so mika and i were just talking about our kids. and talking about what her parents told her, what my parents told me, and that is if you're just going to make eggs or just going to win football games when you're in high school, that's not enough. you have to have something. an organizing principle. >> a passion. >> what's your passion? a lot of kids do that in high school and then just fade away. so warren buffett's worth $65 billion whatever. >> whatever. >> but we've learned, i've learned through the years, guys that have that much money are not doing it for the money. what is the organizing principle in warren buffett's life that puts him where he is but keeps him in his house in omaha? what's that thing that drove him in high school that drives him

now? >> well, he does like to succeed. >> sure. >> money is nothing to him. absolutely nothing. he has always been driven and got interested in investing when he was, well, his first trade was at age 11. how many of us -- i have four grandkids and none seem to be heading in that direction at this particular time. and he just -- he always -- he always was interested in every element of investing. >> he had a goal. >> he had a goal. and, you're right, he likes winning, likes succeeding. but money, and i'm not just saying this patronizing because, again, most really rich people i know, money is something that comes along with doing something they love. >> absolutely. >> so for you what was that thing that drove you from an early age? >> i got interested in investing when i was lake 7 or 8. i started reading every book in

my dad's office, in the public library. >> and what was it about that? >> it fascinated me. the game fascinated me. it really is a fascinating game. you can play it so many different ways. when your hand/eye coordination leaves you, when your legs go, you can keep doing it. you can still invest. >> so were you born with this inate knowledge or is it just something you picked up and learned along the way? a combination of both? >> i think i was born with the right temperament and i started reading and i just never could get enough of it. >> you talk about the right temperament. we watch movies about wall street, see how popular culture covers it and it's usually guys throwing computers against walls screaming and yelling. not the right temperament. have there been times, like frips, during the dot-com boom where you're like, i'm a man out of time. what am i still in this business for? there are times people have said, oh, warren buffett, he's a thing of the past.

my portfolio grew 48% last year. >> you have to be able to ignore that. it drives people crazy normally when they're -- their wives are saying, why aren't you doing that? it doesn't bother me at all. i know what i'm about. there are times what i'm doing isn't going to work and other times it works pretty well. >> i remember after black monday, was it, back in '87? and we heard mr. buffett lost a couple can billion dollars. paper in, paper out. >> right, right. well, as a matter of fact, he and i were heading with 50 other people down to a meeting in williamsburg in 1987 just as that happened. and the next morning these 50 people met and there was almost no conversation about that. very pleasant. almost nobody was exorcised. a couple people but not much. >> no jumping out of windows? >> no jumping out of windows. absolutely not. >> we had a program plan that

went exactly as planned for a few days. the truth is, when stocks go down, i don't rejoice at other people's misfortunes, but the chance to buy them cheaper appeals to me. >> and, if i can also go back to you, a lot of people needed your help after september 15, 2008. you went in and made some investments. i would guess those turned out well for you. >> we spent $16 billion in three weeks. america was not going to disappear. it was panic. no question about it. and we were -- the dominoes were toppling and everything. >> you had confidence in america. >> sure. >> i remember mika and i went over, i forget where it was, but we went over to host an event, a roundtable, with simpson-bowles. everybody we talked to, one person after another, were all talking about you, and not about how you were brilliant or 0 how you were rich.

they all talked about the confidence you had in america while everybody else is talking about a rising china, how we were collapsing. they said you should have heard what warren buffett said. the guy is more bullish on america than ever before. why is that? >> how can you be otherwise? we've come through a civil war, two world wars in the 20th century, the great depression, you name it. and this country works. look where we were in 1776 and where we are now. we've a winning formula. >> so given all that you make a case, minimum tax for the wealthy in "the new york times" and you write this. suppose that an investor you admire and trust comes to you with an investment idea. this is a good one, he says enthusiastically, i'm in it and i think you should be, too. would you reply this? well, it all depend on what my tax rate will be on the gape you are saying we will make. if the taxes are too high, i would rather leave the money in my savings account earning .25%.

only in grover norquist's imagination does such a response exist. >> mika, i'm going to call you at 2:00 a.m. tonight and i'm going to say, itch the greatest stock i've ever seen. i am putting every penny in. do you want to come along? and you are not going to say to me what's the tax? i don't think even grover norquist would say that. >> if you called me at 2:00 a.m. awould say, yeah, okay, whatever you want to do with my money. >> this is actually the same point that steve rattner made over the weekend which is all the guys and the women i know on wall street, none of them have ever become less energetic, less workaholics because of the capital gains rate at 25%. >> or 39.6%. >> hey, can i ask you about that, because -- help me understand this. we have a lot of people talking about how we need to 0 raise more taxes. >> sure. >> and i hear -- i hear the

president talking about moving the top tax rate up to 39.6%. and i'm just wondering, is that as equitable an approach when a lot of really rich guys and women look at that 39.6%? right now i'm never going to pay that. >> yeah. >> would it be better to raise the capital-gains tax and say 15 to 20 or 15 to 25 percent would that help with income disparity a bit more? >> well, that's why i suggest a minimum tax, because you're absolutely right. of the 400 highest incomes in 2009, which average $200 million apiece, a quarter of the people paid at a rate under you 15%. so the only way to get it back is to have a minimum tax. >> how many of those would you bet, if you had to make a bet, paid 39.6%? >> mnone of them. six people in the $200 million category paid nothing at all. they were in romney's 47%. they were the moochers.

and they paid zero. the way to get at them is a minimum tax and it's very simple to do. and it only applies on incomes at a million above and another level of $10 million above. >> what's the minimum tax again? >> i would guess 30% on income above $1 million. 35% above $10 million and all kind of people making that money, you know, by labor, they're already paying those rates. >> would that also include people who -- >> it would hit me. >> it would hit you. >> it would hit me. >> so you would not be paying 14% because of capital gains? >> no. >> again, i don't understand this. i'm making pretty good money. i'm not making warren buffett money but a couple years ago a guy came to me and i'm paying my full 35% or whatever. you really need to figure out how to convert this to capital gains because if you do that you only have to pay 15%. what? i don't have the accountants to figure that out. >> that's not right. governor romney and i would have ended up instead of paying -- he

paid 14%, i paid 16% or 17%, we would be paying 35%. >> go ahead, barnicle? >> you refer to even as a youth investing as a game. >> it is a great. >> a great game. well, they're playing a dangerous game with investing in washington. so my question to you is, if the united states congress, specifically the house of representatives, were a private industry, would you invest in it? would you buy it? >> i think i'd get new management. but i wouldn't give up on the country at all. it's a wonderful country and, believe me, 535 people aren't going to screw it up forever for $312 billion. >> but they could screw it up momentarily. >> they sure can. >> i want to ask you about what you're doing in cleveland on friday, but before i get to that, carol, give me a sense when you are putting this together and compiling all of this, what stood out to you, of everything that stands out about warren buffett and his stories of success, what struck you

personally? >> i think the main thing, the biggest thing was his consistency of thought. even back in the '70s and the '80s he was standing aside -- well, he was an adviser to grinell college in iowa and bob noyes was there and about to start the company called intel and they invested. warren stood aside. he didn't say no. he just said, it's not for me. it's not something i understand. i don't understand what intel does and thanks but you go ahead if you want to but i'm not staying with it. and that was 45 years ago that this was happening. and he is still like that today 0. he exhibited exactly the same behavior during the bubble. he would -- if if there were another bubble he would be just the same. >> consistency. >> do what you know. >> and sit back and look for value and, hey, if the stock

goes down, buy more. whereas most people panic when the stock goes down. >> i want to say, just tell us at what point, 1966 you write an article about this little known guy. >> one sevntence. i wrote an article about another guy. >> this guy in omaha. at what point did the light bulb go off over your head and said, okay, he's different. he's not only a game changer, are he's the guy that's going to create a new game? >> well, i may not have been that good, that expansive in my thinking. but i met him first in 1967. my husband met him first and came home and said i think i may have met the smartest investor in the united states. and i think i probably rolled my eyes. because you know how husbands are always making these superlatives. and then i met warren and his wife shortly after, and i

realized that this guy was unlike anybody i had ever met. now could i see where he's gone? could i see $60 billion or whatever it is today? could i see that huge rise in stock? absolutely not. >> she bought some berkshire hathaway. >> so we did have an inkling. >> a program that i simply adore is 10,000 small businesses and you are going to cleveland on friday. tell us about it. >> well, i'll be meeting some of the participants there. i met them at laguardia community college here, met them in chicago. >> it's such a great program. >> it's a fabulous program. and watching those people start to fulfill their potential, it's dramatic and i've had those people who participate, they take maybe a dozen or so courses. they learn so much about business and then they go out and apply it. they work with each other. it's a terrific program. >> exactly the kind of thing this country needs right now. >> right. >> the book is "tap dancing to work." carol loomis, great to see you.

thank you for coming on. warren buffett, always great to have you on the show. thank you very much. when we come back, in the wake of black friday and cyber monday, today is giving tuesday. our next guest will explain what's behind the important cause. with the spark miles card from capital one, thor gets great rewards for his small business! your boa! [ garth ] thor's small business earns double miles on every purchase, every day! ahh, the new fabrics. put it on my spark card. ow.

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37 past the hour. this time of year it seems every day has a nickname, black friday, small business saturday, cyber monday, and today is giving tuesday. >> the most important. >> did you know that, joe? >> i did not know that. here with us now to tell us more about it, the u.s. business editor of "the economist" matthew bishop. matthew is the author of how giving can save the world. and he's part of the team of influencers behind this inaugural national day. >> matthew, it's great to have you here. i see here, this is a positive sign. charitable fwifg increased from 2010 to 2011, 4%. >> i think charity is something that americans really do better than anyone else in the world, when the going is quite tough, they still give. but i think we felt, the people who came up with this idea, most started out on the 92nd street "y" which you know very well as an organization and the u.n. foundation and the social media

sites. the huffington post came in and started to spread the word. like the shopping season has this opening day with black friday and cyber monday, the giving season, the next few weeks, when most of the giving is concentrated. that means an opening day as well. so the idea was to just put that eidea out there and it caught o and basically people are being asked now to go on the internet, to tweet pictures of what they're going to give to put it on facebook and say this is my favorite cause. >> so i just did #givingtuesday on my twitter account. what are the advantages and what are the drawbacks of giving through social media? >> social media gives you a direct relationship. i love donors choose. a teacher in a classroom goes onon online and says i need this project to be funded.

you see the project. they take a picture of the kids. you get letters from the kids. and then they're very good at also saying, if you gave to that teacher, there's another teacher here. they use the social media very cleverly. >> we certainly do that with americares. >> yes, and msnbc has donors. >> your family and my family has been involved with americares for some time. also msnbc uses, as you said. >> i've always found it to be fascinating over the past few years with text messages and how that -- i would think that social media and the internet has made this so much easier, by the way, not only for people to do before a global -- for people to actually make huge changes around the world in africa, in other places that seem remote that people wouldn't necessarily even know about. >> i think that's right. also what's happening is that people are redefining what it means to be in a community. i think this is one of the

things i'm most excited about with giving tuesday, this is about people saying to their friends and their family, this is what i care about. these are the causes that matter to me and that's why we are asking people to put their photos up there saying this is my personal giving pledge and this is what i am going to do. and i think ideas spread better through friends and family and you all feel that sort of encouragement. well, if my friend is doing this, i'm going to do it as well. >> it's a whole facebook thing. >> what happens -- do you have any projections of what might happen if the charitable giving aspect of the tax code is changed? >> well, this is a huge debate that will happen as they in congress try to figure out long-term fiscal reform. i think the issue is, i talked with warren buffett earlier in the year, for him it makes no difference whatsoever. he gives away billions of dollars. it probably saves him $8 million in taxes a year. the people it affects are those earning above $70,000 and below $250,000.

the evidence shows it makes a small difference but not as big of a difference as you might think. most people give because they care about a particular cause and, you know, the amount of money may be affected by what your accountant tells you but generally you are giving because you want to help that local community group or that village in africa or whatever. >> it has always impressed me and amazed me that in many instances of extraordinary need that you read about in the papers, that many of the people who are first to respond and respond most heavily, not in terms of dollar amount, but just in terms of the element of giving, are people who are living on the edge themselves, who know what it's like to be damaged. >> that, again, is one of the reasons giving tuesday is such an important idea because the amount of giving by ordinary americans is ten times what your billionaires like warren buffett and bill gates are giving away. it gives more visibility to that

and secelebrates that part of t american culture and says this is the great thing about america. i think that idea is really catching on as an example to the rest of the world. ordinary people do dig deep when there's a call on their pockets. >> dig deep and we gave as a country $217 billion in charity in 2011. let me ask, why does facebook just set the limit for giving at $25? that seems low. >> if you can explain why facebook does half of what facebook does, i would like to know. >> give $25 if you want to give through facebook. >> it's a very strange company at times. we all love it but we all hate it at the same time. that is one of those strange things that makes no sense. >> i don't get that. we ought to talk about that. >> matthew, thank you so much. business before the bell is next on "morning joe." anncr: some politicians seem to think medicare and...

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you wouldn't blame her, would you? >> it's the opposite of what you're thinking. >> welcome back to "morning joe." it's the opposite of what i'm thinking and what i'm thinking is it is a bright, beautiful, sunny day. >> business before the bell. cnbc's michelle caruso cabrera. michelle, take it away. good morning, two pieceses of news we're watching, the business front. cyber monday. how every single day has a name during the holiday season. yesterday was cyber monday. already it looks like anywhere from between an increase of 20% to 27% in spending compared to a year ago depending on which survey or which company you follow. that means we spent somewhere between $1.5 billion to $2

billion online yesterday when we were probably supposed to be working instead. but we'll put that aside. the other piece of news is that greece is finally going to get some money. greece is the problem child of europe. the whole ground zero for the european tngs crisis. they've been haggling over what to do for them. greece will get more time to pay back loans, get lower interest rates, some other help, and i wouldn't call this a positive. i would say this eliminates what could have been a big negative for the markets. if you have a mortgage and you're having trouble paying it, a 15-year loan, now you have 30 years to pay it back and your interest rate was 4% now 2% instead. that's what they're doing for greece. >> all right. michelle caruso cabrera, great to have you on. thank you so much. tomorrow on "morning joe" larry summers joins us on set. up next, the best of late night.

so the fighting began last week. some say it was retaliation for hamas holding an israeli soldier

hostage for five years with which might have been, i don't know, retaliation for settlement expansion which was in retaliation from, what i've heard -- let's just go back to when this thing started. this thing has deep roots. >> that was a lifelong catholic i have stood by the church during its various trials and public tribulations. the debate over birth control, the role of women in the church, and a third controversy i've taken drugs to forget. but, frankly, i got nativity'd off when the pope broke that although it's clear jesus was born in a manger no mention of animals in the gospels. no animals in the manger? who died and made you pope? oh, another pope, okay. well, that's convenient.

well, apparently the pope has not read the gospel of the little drummer boy. where it is written, quote, mary nodded pa rum pum pum pum the ox and the lamb kept time. what else wasn't in the manger? no red-nosed reindeer? no mary kissing santa claus? no frosty the snowman singing catch me if you can? hey, your holiness, you know what else is never mentioned in the bible? the pope. >> it is nice to see lindsay lohan getting reviewed by critics instead of the parole board. even though getting terrible reviews, they found a way to turn lemons into lemonade. >> the best worst movie of the year. hollywood reporter calls it spectacularly bad. an instant classic of up intentional hilarity.

drinking games were made for movies like this. "liz & dick" is very bad, just as you knew it would be. and the san francisco kr"san fr chronicle" proclaims it's so terrible you'll need to ice your face when it's over. "liz & dick" so bad you'll have to see it to believe it. >> i'm bored. i'm so bored. >> encore presentation this saturday only on lifetime. here is a look at your business forecast. some snow in areas it typically prone to airport delays including new york city, philadelphia, and up into

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what did you learn today? >> i learned from tapper that too few of us pay attention to so many of us fighting this 12-year long war. >> unbelievable. and it just keeps going and going. mika, what did you learn? >> i still can't figure out, so i'm not sure what i learned about this, maybe he wasn't serious with the commercial. i think it was a joke. >> i learned why mike barnicle is growing his hair because i understand that they paid pitt for six months to run this and then of course over in japan for a couple more years.

barnicle will be the next chanel model. >> i'm out of here. >> i'm so glad they didn't see that. it's way too early, what time is it? >> well, it's time for "morning joe." >> but right now chucked to and "the daily rundown. "chuck? thank you, boys. number crunching. both sides of the fiscal cliff fight have numbers they like to highlight and they're ready to sell it to the public. a campaign-style road show help drive a deal behind closed doors? and president obama gets set to meet with mexico's incoming president, a deep dive into a fight that's killed nearly ten times as many people as the wars in iraq and afghanistan combined. it's that drug war south of the border in mexico. and governor chris christie makes it official. he's running for governor of new jersey in 2013 for re-election. but that doesn't mean 2016 speculation doesn't cran